forgiving self and others

One theme that appears in several of these posts so far is the idea that the level of self-forgiveness affects how someone treats other people. What does the novel suggest about this relationship--beyond what previous posts have noted so far? Try to give a specific example or two in your response.

Junk People

In William Kennedy's novel, Ironweed, Francis takes work with a rag-picker--a man named Rosskam who buys rags and bottles and other "junk."  In the first part of this story (thru ch. 3), do you find people who are seen, by themselves or others, as junk?  Of which individuals is this most true?  How do you respond to these perceptions and why?

factors in "Firelight"

As I said in class, if we view forgiveness as a process, a condition or even a force field, factors can move a situation or group of people either towards forgiveness or away from it.  We agree that Tobias Wolff's story, "The Chain," moves away from forgiveness, and we have discussed some of the factors that push the story in that direction.  For example, our discussion has noted emotions like anger and frustration.  We also have noticed factors like lack of apology and inability (or unwillingness) to consider consequences.  Several of you have phrased this last factor as an inability to pause and reflect.

Wolff also wrote "Firelight."  This story seems to move towards forgiveness, especially when compared to "The Chain."  Do you agree?  If so, what factors contribute to this direction?  If not, what factors do you find overlapping in both stories?  (As you read the story and consider this question, focus on the relationship between the son and mother.  Remember the story's point of view--not only the person but the time from which that person tells the story.)

Special note: If you have been hanging back in the first few posts, push yourself to move towards the front of the line.  I think we will produce richer results, if everyone takes turns entering at different stages.  If you check back to see what people have been writing and want to add an additional comment, I hope we all make you feel welcome to do that.  This venue can encourage people to discuss; let's help people feel free to build the conversation.  We're off to a productive start.

The challenge of "The Chain"

Understandably, many of the initial answers to the essential questions stayed at the general level.  Now we have read Tobias Wolff's story, "The Chain."

What happens when you apply the specifics of that story to one of the ideas emerging from those initial comments--either your ideas or someone else's?  Or maybe the story has prompted additional thoughts; feel free to discuss those, if so.

To help build discussion and discovery, make your comments as clear, specific and developed as possible.  I look forward to your thoughts.  As the blog builds, we move in the direction of collective conversation, and away from the teacher-question-student-answer model.

Finally, we are exploring how to use this blog venue to our advantage.  In the process, I imagine, we will begin to discern differences between writing here and producing paragraphs or essays offline.  I often find it helpful to ask three questions when writing: "What am I writing and for whom? What is the writing's central purpose? How can I best shape the writing for this particular audience and purpose?  Let's keep these questions in mind, as we explore the course questions in this venue.

terrorists

In the opening weeks of this class, students will read a novel with a high-school senior as one of its central characters.  The young man has grown up in the Muslim faith, in New Jersey.

Today (08 March 2001), The New York Times has three separate writings about some Americans' views of Islam.  On the front page appears a story about a Lebanese woman, now an American citizen, who writes and speaks about the dangers of Islamic radicalization (author/speaker Brigitte Gabriel).  The second piece is the paper's lead editorial about the Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee ("Peter King's Obsession").  The third writing, "Flailing After Muslims," comes from columnist Bob Herbert (Herbert).

Please comment on your reactions to any of these writings.  What do you think of the ideas in the writings themselves?  Do you have opinions about the editors' decision to place all three pieces on the same day?  How much do you see real issues and political posturing?

Essential Questions

What are the roots of forgiveness?

Is it harder to forgive yourself or someone else?

How symbiotic is the relationship between forgiving yourself and forgiving others?